#andor is a really good series but it isn't good star wars

[maaruin]

I’ve heard it said that Andor is a response to A New Hope. In a new hope Luke is the hero who saves the galaxy. Andor on the other hand says that you can’t save the galaxy as a single person, but you can join a broad revolutionary movement that saves the galaxy.

But see, in Return of the Jedi the galaxy is also saved by a movement. It is an alliance many different humans, and mon calamari, and sullustans, and ewoks.

There is, however, a different message packaged in both stories. In Andor, the response to the idea that it needs a movement to save the galaxy is to dedicate your entire life to that movement, because it is meaningless outside of the cause (”Kill me, or take me in!”). In RotJ the response to the idea that it needs a movement to save the galaxy is that you can trust other people to do it without you, and it is okay if you just want to save one person (one enemy) who is important to you instead.

Ideologically, Andor might actually be the furthest any Star Wars series has ever strayed from the spirit of Star Wars.

[gffa]

Hi :)

I'm a pretty new SW fan, not because I didn't like the movies/hadn't seen them but because I grew up thinking it was extremely nerdy and would often feel awkward trying to bring up anything related to SW.

Fortunately I've finally reached and met awesome people who love SW just like I did but I feel like I lost A LOT of important stuff and there's so much content to the saga that it's extremely overwhelming for me to even think about diving into the whole SW universe and catch up.

I've been following you for a bit and your posts are just extremely interesting to me but again, sometimes I'm a little confused about certain things and so I wanted to ask you if you had any recommendations about where to start catching up (besides the movies which I will be binge watching soon hehe)

Hi! Welcome to Star Wars fandom, I hope you're having a good time! And around here we embrace being as nerdy as possible--I mean, fandom is such a mainstream thing these days, but I still like to embrace being a nerd about things because it leads to a lot more happiness, to just be silly and having a good time with the thing that tickles our brains.

But, yes, it is pretty overwhelming when you're first arriving, I still remember when I first came back to SW several years ago, having really only watched the movies as a kid, and there was All This Stuff and it seemed impossible to ever reach the deep end of the pool, and that was before the last seven years of books, games, movies, comics, etc. came out! I will hopefully set your mind at ease with this, though: The vast, vast majority of content that Star Wars puts out isn't anything I would consider "essential". It's wonderful, fantastic stuff! But a lot of us have just been around so long that we're combing through the finer details of supplementary material, rather than those being absolute Must-Read/Watch To Get A Feel For Star Wars.

My recommendations for How To Get A Feel For Star Wars is basically, start with the animated series and the live action series, they're the second layer of foundation in the Star Wars building, all the comics and novels and such will be built on them, and in this order: - The movies, this is the foundation on which everything else will be built. - The Clone Wars, season 1-6 are part of George Lucas' story and they're pretty essential (at least in this corner of SW fandom) to understanding wtf anyone is talking about or even watching many of the live action series. (Season 7 is fine and should be watched! It's just not part of Lucas' Star Wars.) - Star Wars: Rebels, starts off light-hearted but really is one of the best developed shows and does a lot of connective work between the prequels and the original trilogy. - The Mandalorian, set 9 years after Return of the Jedi, this show just massively blew up and while each season is slightly less well-done than the previous one (imo), it's well worth watching for wtf fandom is talking about half of the time. (The Book of Boba Fett is somewhat optional in this corner of fandom, but imo worth the watch. Generally, it should go Mando s1-2 --> TBOBF --> Mando s3.) - Obi-Wan Kenobi, because this corner of fandom lost our goddamned minds about it and still haven't gotten them back. - Andor, which is a really great show and, as long as you've watched Rogue One first, you'll follow along just fine. Does some solid connecting the dots between the prequels and the originals, but not as much as Rebels did. - Jedi: Fallen Order, you can look up a "movie" version on YouTube for the story of this game, which is a really good plot, has some great new characters, has some genuinely effective cameos, and will be referenced fairly often in other materials/in fandom.

If you're not feeling overwhelmed by All The Star Wars You've Consumed, I would personally suggest going for the comics next, over any of the novels. The novels are great! But the vast majority of them are self-contained and meant to be supplementary material even more than the comics, which get to tell bigger, more connected stories. I always suggest starting with: - Star Wars 2015 by Jason Aaron + Darth Vader 2015 by Kieron Gillen, both of which are really, solidly fantastic stories about the timeframe just after A New Hope, like there are so many absolutely banger lines that came out of these comics. I won't spoil them, just know that I think these were legitimately good comics, not just legitimately good Star Wars comics. (The first six issues of each series are meant to be read concurrently, but after that, you can just pick one and read in that specific title.) - Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith 2017 by Charles Soule, which is set in the immediate aftermath of Revenge of the Sith. If Gillen's Vader keeps the mystique of the originals Unknowable Darth Vader, then Soule's Vader is more about the absolute BATSHIT DRAMA that is blending Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader. This series is BANANAPANTS in the absolute best way. - Obi-Wan & Anakin 2015 by Charles Soule, which is a five-issue mini-series set between The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones and is both stunningly beautiful art and a solidly good plot that survives fairly serious analysis of. It's got some great worldbuilding details, but even more I like it for the look at why a young Anakin chooses to stay with the Jedi Order.

The one book I will recommend--for a list aimed at getting you caught up on what fandom is referencing--is the Revenge of the Sith novelization by Matthew Stover, that book is quoted constantly, and I'm not sure any other SW book has ever been as good as it is.

I feel like this is the best set of reading to get you familiarized with the source material that tends to come up the most! There's lots more that's really good, but once you get through the above, you can let me know what era or characters you're most interested in or if you have a specific question about something and want to see where it comes from!

But there's one thing to address and you're kinda going to have to figure out how to approach it on your own. 😂 There is a ton of stuff in SW fandom that's ostensibly from a book or a comic, but the version in fandom often comes from those who never actually read the books/haven't read them in a long time or are just picking them up from other fic and meta.

For example, the AgriCorps or Melida/Daan get referenced in fic and in posts all the time, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend reading the Jedi Apprentice series (I mean, I'm not your mom, feel free if you want to!) and often times how they're used in fic is not how they were used in the source material. Or the clones speaking Mando'a comes from the Legends books by Karen Traviss and she is a whole big can of ugly worms (both what she wrote and her IRL politics), as well as much of what she wrote was overwritten/discarded when The Clone Wars came out, but fandom likes the idea and so they put that into their fics (as they should, if they like it!). The idea of Mace using the lightsaber form of Vaapad is from Legends sources (the best source probably being the Shatterpoint novel by Matthew Stover, I'd guess?), same for his ability to see "shatterpoints" in the Force, which aren't part of Lucas' continuity or Disney's continuity, but fandom enjoys using them to flesh out Mace's character. This will get you started and, if you're looking for something more specific, feel free to ask, I enjoy these kinds of question--and don't feel you have to stick with any of the above if they're not fun for you. This is meant to be enjoyable, it's meant to have a good time, there's no wrong way to consume Star Wars media! <3

[dindjarindiaries]

I can't help thinking Andor was a curse in disguise. Ok, that's a strong word. But. I agree, Andor is stellar.. and that's the thing. Ever since that series came out, any other show that isn't exactly as good and exactly the same was critized unfairly harshly. Just look at The Mandalorian! Everybody loved The Mandalorian! Then Andor came out, and Mando was snobbed to a mediocre family show for amateur fans. Even season 1 and 2.

Andor is so far away from the other shows and movies in its tone and yeah, writing quality. You can barely compare it with anything else. It looks like it was supposed to be a more niche series, but ended up as a new standard that Star Wars must reach every time, and that's just... unfair.

You have a big point here, and it is because Andor is so good - but that's because Andor adopted modern methods of storytelling, which fit the tone of its respective story.

Andor took a step away from what made Star Wars Star Wars in the first place: a silly goofy space opera with aliens, laser swords, and nonsensical vocabulary. Andor was grounded because of the message it wanted to send; they wanted people in the real world to relate to that story, and thus it became almost like an HBO drama to help foster that relatability.

Star Wars at its core, however, is nothing like that. It does have relatable characters and themes, but in reality, it's beloved because it offers escapism into a world that could never exist. It doesn't take itself too seriously, and that's the point.

The Mandalorian has always toed this line, because at the time it came out, it was the grittiest and darkest Star Wars had ever gotten. After Andor, however, this is clearly not the case. Now that people have gotten a taste of what real-world Star Wars feels like, some want that for everything when... well, that's not what Star Wars is about.

Andor is a fantastic show, a fantastic show, but to me, it's never really felt like a Star Wars show for this reason. People who wish everything in Star Wars was more like Andor probably just aren't fans of the original, fantastical essence of Star Wars itself.

[jadelotusflower]

So I finally watched Andor...

...and naturally I have thoughts (hey, it’s me). Maybe they're belated, seeing as this show was released almost two years ago, but I've been on the outskirts of the Star Wars fandom for a while now. This in and of itself isn't usual - I tend to drift between my core fandoms in phases, but since TLJ the GFFA hasn't really been a pleasant place to be so I haven't really had a reason to drift back to it for any length of time.

Which isn't to say I've avoided Star Wars altogether, dipping in when something piques my interest like Obi-Wan Kenobi (which I liked aspects of but ultimately felt like just a setup to the show I actually wanted to watch), and have absorbed some of the rest through cultural osmosis. Andor is a show I've been meaning to get to for a while, although it has been praised to the point of being overhyped (and there was a whiff of Not Like Other Star Wars to the critical reception) so I was concerned it would not meet expectations.

But I was pleasantly surprised as how much this show felt spiritually and aesthetically in tune with the original trilogy, and especially A New Hope, as opposed to Disney!Star Wars. Even if the tone and content of Andor is very different, it feels in conversation with the OT in a way the rest of Disney’s output has not - building on the story we already know, rather than trying replace or rewrite it as something else.

Aesthetically, we have the 70's vibe of the set design and costuming in middle-class Coruscant, the stark white jumpsuits and surrounds of Narkina 5 evoking Lucas's early film THX-1138, even the way we are plopped right into the middle of the story with very little exposition, but still eased into the narrative is very reminiscent of the first act of A New Hope. Thematically, of course we’re seeing the Rebellion in its earlier stages - small disparate cells of seditious activity directly acting against Imperial interests that will become the somewhat ragtag but nonetheless organised and unified Alliance.

While Star Wars was a cinema pastiche throwback to Flash Gordan serials and Campbell’s hero’s journey as an antidote to the grimdark antiheroes of the 70’s, in many ways Andor brings things back full circle to the grit of neo-noir. It holds a mirror up to the OT and lets us see the other side of the coin - and the full cost of victory. So many people have to die for Cassian to make it to the Rebellion - just like Cassian himself will die for the Death Star plans to make it to Leia, like Obi-Wan will die to ensure those plans make it to the Rebellion, and squadrons of rebel pilots will die so Luke can ultimately destroy the Death Star.

A stone is dropped in a pond, and we see the ripples but the stone itself sinks.

Overall thoughts

Tony Gilroy is the showrunner here, a veteran screenwriter notable for the Bourne films, and we can certainly see this influence at work. He also wrote The Devil’s Advocate, which is by no means good but I do enjoy in all its ott mythological monologues-and-accents glory, and seminal romcom (of my childhood at least) The Cutting Edge. He also wrote and directed Michael Clayton, which I have not seen but was nominated for several Oscars, including Original Screenplay, Director, and Best Picture (Tilda Swinton won for Supporting Actress).

Of course he's also a credited screenwriter on Rogue One, and I understand his contribution was mostly to the infamous rewrites/reshoots. I desperately want to read a full breakdown/bts of what went down with that film (well all of Disney-led Lucasfilm really) and see the deleted/original material, because I am fascinated. It's also interesting to note that Gilroy took over showrunning duties from Stephen Schiff pre-production. The show does very much feel like Gilroy wanted to make his own stamp on the Andor character and use him as a vehicle in his spy-thriller/political intrigue wheelhouse.

Reading some of Gilroy’s comments around the series had made me wonder how much of Andor being reflective/referential to the OT was intentional (on his part at least), and arguably Gilroy did overwrite the character of Cassian Andor so…there’s nuance. But as a story, to me it felt in tune with what I love about Star Wars rather than at odds with it, and that's what I appreciated most.

But first things first. B2EMO made it to the end! Finally, my expectations are subverted in a good way, because I love this little droid with all my heart. There are several key elements of Star Wars to me that separate it from other sci-fi/space fantasy and that is Jedi, distinctive aliens, and sentient droids. Obviously there's no Jedi here (nor does there need to be), my issues with the lack of aliens I'll address below, but when it comes to droids B2EMO fits right in, and we can assume is a precursor to Cassian's relationship with K-2SO.

Overall I thought the show was excellent (with a few caveats). What's impressive is the sheer number of characters and plots interwoven together, every conversation servicing character, the overall theme or setting something up that will pay off later, playing with coincidence and fate (the will of the Force), the interlocking domino effect. Arvel Skeen recognising the tattoo on Cassian's arm leads to a conversation of his history, but also sets up Skeen later offering to take and split the haul with Cassian (and getting killed for it). The raid on Aldhani triggers the Empire’s harsh new measures that gets Cassian sentenced to six years in prison, but also inspires the rebellion on Ferrix (via Maarva). The Aldhani heist is a triumph for Vel, but traps Mon’s financial contributions to the Rebellion by the Empire’s crackdown on banking, leading her and her daughter into an unwanted family alliance.

I'm a big proponent of Star Wars Dialogue is Good, Actually - not saying there's not clunkers or stilted scenes (the PT moreso than the OT) but there seems to be this weird consensus that Lucas-era dialogue sucks despite being some of the most quoted/referenced movies of all time. Lucas was creating a modern myth, of course a lot of it is arch and operatic. I love the dialogue in Andor too - which rightly gets high praise, and while it's arguably tighter, in many ways it's no more naturalistic than that of the Saga with everyone constantly speaking in metaphor, it's just pitched differently because this is a different genre (and the acting is uniformly excellent because they are actually interacting with each other and being competently directed).

There’s layers of meaning in almost every scene and subtle moments of foreshadowing that I really enjoy - Karis Nemik muses on the role of mercenaries in a rebellion that must use every tool and weapon at its disposal, and obviously Cassian starts out as that mercenary who will be pulled into the wider struggle, but this also foreshadows the importance of Han Solo - at first only out for the promise of a reward but ultimately instrumental in bringing the Empire down. But it’s not because he’s treated as a tool - as the Empire treats its workforce as tools - but because he’s treated as worthwhile, he’s valued as a person. The Empire casts people out while the Rebellion draws them in.

We also see this in the arc on Narkina 5, and the Empire’s tightening grip backfiring against them. In order to force the prisoners to speedily produce parts for the Death Star they work in close-knit teams, creating a close camaraderie ultimately allowing them to escape - because when you turn people into cogs of a machine, the machine can be turned back against you. Contrast this to the jockeying over position and territory and power in the ISB - they serve the Empire, but never at personal cost.

We see the Republic of affiliated systems from the PT turn into an Empire of conquered planets, where local cultures are subsumed into homogeneous Imperial rule. Even Corpsec is replaced by Imperial oversight, and we know that the Senate on Coruscant will be dissolved completely in ANH. But ultimately this ferments rebellion and unites the outcast and oppressed - the Keredians on Narkina 5 hate the Empire for their prison polluting the waterways, and so let Cassian and Melchi go. Cinta’s whole family was killed by stormtroopers turning her single minded focus to destroying them. The people of Ferrix respond to Maarva’s call and riot against the Imperial forces even though it will mean violent reprisal.

The Empire forges the weapons that will be used against them. As Nemik’s manifesto states: “The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.”

And yet we're not there yet - it's important that this is still a Rebellion and not an Alliance, a disparate collection of segmented sedition with a myriad of agendas we see run by Saw Gerrara, Anton Kreegyr, Luthen Rael. They won't be a genuine threat to the Empire until they join forces, share resources and intelligence, and unite behind a collective goal. Although there may be sacrifices in this as well - Separatists, Partisan Front, Sectorists etc mentioned by Saw will either coalesce under the Alliance to Restore the Republic or be driven further to the fringes.

The thrust of Nemik's manifesto is that freedom is a natural state of being, while oppression is unnatural, and even though Andor has nothing to do with the Jedi it nonetheless echoes their philosophy: that the Force is in a natural state of balance, while the existence of the Sith who tap into the Dark Side upset this balance. As we see in Return of the Jedi, the balance is ultimately restored by the return to that natural state buffeted by the most powerful forces - friendship, love, sacrifice - forces that ultimately drive Cassian as well. While much has been said of the moral ambiguity and nuance of Andor, it's not incongruent with the OT, if anything it reinforces its power and message.

HOWEVER, I have my nits to pick - the lack of aliens is a serious flaw (and in particular, the lack of familiar aliens). In some cases they can get away with it and make subtle commentary - Coruscant is stark and grey as the centre of bureaucracy in stark contrast to the vibrant metropolis of the PT. Seeing the streets populated almost exclusively by humans where once it was a melting pot underscores the Empire’s segregationist policies. However the dearth of non-humans elsewhere - Ferrix, Aldhani, even the prison labour camp Narkina 5 - is disconcerting. These are places meant to depict the oppressive rule of the Empire and this undermines the strength of the rebellion as a group of diverse species fighting against the Imperial monoculture. It's odd, for example, that we see all the characters from Ferrix return except Vetch, the muscle employed "just to stand there" by Nurchi (a nice moment with Cassian!), and that Maarva's funeral procession seems entirely human.

Ultimately, I think the setup is much stronger than the payoff, and while I appreciate the slow burn, the show does have sometimes have difficulty juggling the plots. Once set up, characters are parked waiting to be incorporated into the narrative (it feels like we watch Syril stare at his cereal forever) and looking back not much actually happens to a lot of them- there are a lot of threads left hanging and not much resolution. Which is of course because this was only intended to be season 1 of 5, with each arc a year of Cassian’s life leading up to Rogue One. But sadly Andor has been given a second season only, leaving 12 episodes to wrap everything up, so ultimately I fear the show will feel like a slow setup and rushed conclusion, which is a real shame.

Cassian Andor

I’m went into this as someone who doesn’t really have a strong connection to Cassian as a character - I certainly liked him in Rogue One! But let’s just say he’s not my blorbo. And this not the backstory I would have expected for the character five years before Rogue One as someone who has “been in this fight since [he] was six years old.”

Diego Luna has such a charismatic presence and it is nice to have a more internal, insular character, but it’s kind of sad that Cassian is really the least developed character in a show ostensibly about him. It’s not really his story, but he’s the fulcrum (pun intended) around which most of the other characters pivot; this is a story of the rebellion of which he is just one part. So, I can see if Cassian fans may have been upset by his lack of focus, and I personally would have wanted to delve a bit deeper into Cassian Andor on a show called Andor, you know? And it does feel a little bit skeevy that the actual Axis (pun intended) of the show is Luthen in his middle age white man glory, with a whiff of Gilroy’s self-insert about him.

I do wish LFL would abandon simply naming their shows after the main character - presumably it’s for general audience recognition and algorithmic reasons, but my god how boring. If the show had been marketed as the ensemble it actually is I would take less issue with the lack of Cassian focus. But sadly I’m not sure we know that much more about Cassian at the end of the show than we did at the end of the first three episodes - or really, what it adds to his character and arc we see in Rogue One.

Yes he’s further radicalised by his experiences and is now presumably "all in" on the rebellion, but the events of the show are kicked off by Cassian searching for his sister which is a motivation that is all but dropped thereafter - although at one point I was half-expecting (dreading) it to be revealed that Luthen's assistant Kleya Marki was Kerri (and sidebar, Kleya - what a stone cold bitch! I love a stone cold bitch).

This plot will likely continue in season 2, but it felt a bit undercooked and too deep in the subtext given the prominence it had in kicking off the narrative. We get a flashback to Cassian’s childhood, but ultimately it feels like lipservice to his Indigenous heritage rather than true engagement since we don't see him reflect on it in any way, nor does it seem to have any impact on his choices throughout the series that seem primarily motivated by his life and relationships on Ferrix.

We get a strong start to Cassian and Luthen that peters out - he's intent on recruiting Cassian, but then writes him off when Cassian flees after Aldhani and wants him killed, then goes all the way to Ferrix for him, but is about to leave without actually doing anything? I know Luthen's meant to be ambiguous, but this is one area where plot is obviously driving things not character. I get that it was important for Cassian to be the one to go to Luthen at the end and choose the Rebellion unfetted, but the relationship is undercooked. I almost feel like the series is a procession of things that happen to Cassian rather than a journey I was on with him. There's external forces, but very little internal focus.

However, what I did love about the show was the thematic resonance that was happening on a macro and micro level - while the show as a whole is a mirror/reflection of the OT, we also see dichotomy in the character pairings that are mirrors and/or foils of each other in various ways - we have the two sides of the conflict being Empire and Rebellion (with Cassian stuck in the middle), and we are also shown conflict within those two sides.

Cassian is without a reflective character pairing because his true mirror is Jyn Erso, and seeing Cassian’s struggles here does give real weight to his “you’re not the only one who lost everything” speech - in many ways the show is his journey from being Jyn, to being the man who says to her “we don't all have the luxury of deciding when and where we want to care about something.”

Mon Mothma and Luthen Rael

The most obvious mirror/foil pair as the two sides of the Rebellion, although arguably we have a third prong in Saw Gerrara, and kind of a mirror in Luthen as Cassian’s mentor as Saw was Jyn’s - and I do wonder about the show that was a two-handed prequel with Cassian and Jyn growing up in different factions of the Rebellion, but alas.

The artifact Luthen gives Mon represents “a sun goddess and a serpent sharing the same mouth” representing their differing philosophical approach to fighting the Empire. As mirror characters they are alike in many ways - both of the privileged class and living double lives on Coruscant, but while Mon makes political efforts to move the needle on the Empire's activities in the Senate while also funneling money to direct but small rebel efforts, Luthen outright pokes the bear, sacrifices allies, and knowingly making things worse to swell the ranks of the rebellion on the hope it will speed up progress. There's more than a hint of the incrementalism/revolutionary dichotomy here.

It also raises a lot of interesting questions without (rightly) providing many answers - the struggle of the oppressed, the moral weight of insurgency and revolution. Is it right to intentionally provoke an oppressive power into reacting with violence in order to fuel a greater pushback against them? Is short term suffering justified if it achieves eventual victory, and is it right for the few to decide what is a justifiable sacrifice? What are our responsibilities to each other under the threat of/struggle against authoritarianism? As social commentary it's more timely than ever.

Whether Mon or Luthen is right for the viewer to decide, although as Leia tells Tarkin in ANH: "the more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." On the other hand, we know Mon survives to the end of the Empire while Luthen (I assume) will not. She will become a leading figure in the Alliance, and eventual Chancellor of the New Republic, while he will be another stone at the bottom of the pond.

This is foreshadowed in the dialogue (with a direct mirror reference):

“I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else’s future. I burn my life, to make a sunrise that I know I’ll never see. No, the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror, or an audience, or the light of gratitude."

Arguably however, the mirror is the show - we are the audience.

We know Cassian joins Luthen at the end of season 1, and will meet Mon in season 2, so it will be interesting to see him struggle between these two philosophies, although we can infer from Rogue One that he aligns himself (out of necessity) with Luthen's veiwpoint:

"We've all done terrible things on behalf of the Rebellion. Spies, saboteurs, assassins....And every time I walked away from something I wanted to forget, I told myself it was for a cause that I believed in. A cause that was worth it. Without that, we're lost."

Ultimately, the Rebellion needs people like Luthen and Cassian to make not only the physical sacrifice, but the moral one as well (noting our first introduction to Cassian is him killing an informant so he can escape) - people who play the Empire's game so Luke can ultimately reject the Emperor's.

But I had mixed feelings on the Mon Mothma storyline. It feels a bit off for Luthen to be her entrée into the Rebellion, when we know she’s been on the ground from the very beginning with the Petition of the 2000 (cut from ROTS, but still canon I assume). She just felt very isolated and fragile which is at odds with her quiet steel that we see in Return of the Jedi and Rogue One. I could maybe see this Mon in the early dark days, but only 5 years before ANH? A scene with Bail Organa would not have gone amiss just to give breadth to her rebellious activities.

We get to see Luthen visit Saw Gerrara on Segra Milo, why not give Mon a scene with Bail to show she has other irons in the fire rather than relying on Luthen? In Saw we see the rough and tumble of disparate rebel factions, I would have liked to see the political machinations of Mon and Bail to serve the metaphor even further.

She is more than just a bank for the rebellion, and I think in the effort to contrast Luthen and Mon there was a bit of disservice done to the latter.

And Mon’s loser husband - ugh. Okay they’re in some kind of arranged marriage but there’s very little substance, nothing us particularly revealed about Mon by including him. Other than her cleverly using his gambling debts to deflect her rebellion spending at the end, the story wouldn’t really have changed by him not existing, and in fact would have been improved by focusing more on Mon’s difficult relationship with her daughter.

But on a purely shallow note, I want her wardrobe!

Dedra Meero and Syril Karn

In some ways Cassian and Syril are the narrative foils and there are parallels between them - their conflict instigated in the first episodes, their maternal relationships, both essentially exiles for the middle section before both end up back on Ferrix where Cassian saves Bix and Syril saves Dedra. But I feel Syril and Dedra work better as mirrors, and their arcs also parallel and intersect.

In the Empire, Dedra and Syril are two sides of the other coin (there's quite a few coins in this metaphor). Regimes need bureaucracy, and you have the true believers, the status-climbers, and those just going along to get along. In Dedra we have the talented star of the prestigious Imperial Security Bureau, and in Syril the over eager Corporate Security officer, two arms of the Empire’s control, although the latter we see becoming obsolete as the former gains more control.

But they're both middlemen who chafe against the inaction of their superiors, both desperate to rise above their station (although those stations are quite far apart). Throughout the series their plots are mostly in parallel; they are reflections of each other without even having met.

It's uncomfortable to watch both of them on screen - all unblinking stares, sucked in cheeks, and pursed lips - fittingly repellent. I’m surprised Gilroy has said he wrote Dedra to be relatable - she skeeved me out from the first, someone clearly ready to step over anyone and everyone if it served her purposes rather than someone gradually drawn further into an authoritarian regime. There's the slight subtext of sexism - there's only one other women in the ISB briefing and Pendergast alludes to it, but that certainly didn't engender any sympathy or admiration from me.

In episode 7 Syril’s mother Eedy says “Everything says something, Syril” and chastises him about tailoring his uniform (just as he did in the first episode, a neat little character tell), and immediately after we see Dedra donning her uniform perfectly in sync with the rest of the ISB. He’s trying to stand out from the crowd, she’s trying to fit in - or, from a different perspective, Syril adjusts his collar to resemble the Imperial style as a signifier of where he wants to be, while Dedra is already there and still looking higher.

But both are thinking outside the rigid Imperial lines and command structures, both on the hunt for Cassian - although for Syril it's personal and Dedra it's about climbing the ranks. Both take it upon themselves to investigate against orders, but Syril’s attempts are clumsy and random while Dedra’s are clinical and targeted.

She identifies that “systems either change or die” to push the ISB’s fragmented and bureaucratic inefficiencies into a cohesive power structure, but while it wins her approval it doesn’t earn her any loyalty; her troops abandon her to the mob on Ferrix. Inexplicably though, Syril does manage to gain the loyalty of Sergeant Mosk, who was also punished for the initial blunder on Ferrix, but ultimately draws Syril back there to in search of Cassian.

The point at which they first intersect in episode 8, Dedra is on an upswing, she holds the power and sends Syril further down, but when they meet again in episode 11, the roles are reversed as he is the one to save her from the mob.

I just hope they’re going somewhere more interesting than his creepy crush.

Vel Sartha and Cinta Kaz

One of the major faults of Rogue One was its Smurfette Syndrome, where Jyn is a great female character surrounded by men, but Andor has pleasingly course corrected from this. See what happens when you don’t have one woman having to embody everything and bear the weight of her entire gender in the narrative (and therefore, also bear the criticism)? Andor happily treats its women as characters, not faux-empowering meme-fodder. Although there is perhaps some valid commentary that it’s still white women on the whole - Dedra, Mon, Vel, Maarva - who get the meatier roles, and I have my issues with Mon’s characterisation, but one thing I will give Disney LFL credit for is it’s ongoing efforts towards gender parity.

In Vel and Cinta we have two more sides of insurgency - from wealth and privilege in Vel, the cousin of Mon Mothma struggling with the weight of it all, to Cinta with her cold fire and unwavering drive, her family killed by stormtroopers and for whom the struggle will always come first.

Cinta’s cool reserve is a contrast to Vel’s nerves (as seen in the Aldhani raid); they’re coming from very different places even if their cause is the same. There may even be a bit of classism in the subtext - Vel leads the mission on Aldhani after asking for the mission from Luthen, when really Cinta is the one who is most committed, and she has to push Vel though several times when she falters.

Vel still has one foot in the Imperial world and the complications of rebellious machinations - worried for Mon and her family, wanting to prove herself to Luthen, jockeying with Kleya - but for Cinta none of that matters, she loves Vel but there's often a sense she's disappointed in her. There's a dichotomy within Cinta - she's not unfeeling, showing kindness to Cassian when he joins their group, yet accepting the mission to kill him later without hesitation.

It seems to me that Cinta is the revolutionary Vel wants to be but can't quite divest herself of enough to become - the metaphor is made explicit with these two - Cinta tells Vel: “I’m a mirror. You love me because I show you what you need to see.”

Which is a pretty interesting dynamic, especially as a romantic one, and I’m interested to see where it will go (and hope that Cinta will get more focus, even though I do love Vel a lot too).

Their storyline did run out of steam by the end through, was there any point to either of these characters being on Ferrix at the end? It very much felt like all the plot lines were being forced to intersect at the climax without all of them necessarily needing to. Although Cinta stabbing that guy in the heart was pretty cathartic.

Bix Callen, Maarva Andor, and Ferrix

I loved Ferrix as a location, with its own distinct aesthetic, culture, and populace - the work gloves all hung on the wall, the metal tapping warning system, the daily hammer and anvil (the Time Grappler, according to Wookieepedia), funerary practices. etc. The first few episodes set up Cassian’s community on Ferrix which we come full circle on in the final two, but I did have some trouble keeping track of who was who at that point.

It is interesting that the trope of “just another brick in the wall” is turned on its head here - rather than representing a cog in the machine, in Ferrix ashes of the deceased are mixed with brick and added to a wall in remembrance - a literal touchstone for Cassian as he remembers his adoptive father Clem. A wall is strong, a bulwark against outside forces, and every brick added makes it stronger. Stones dropped in a pond, bricks built into a wall - reminders of the dead that spur the will to fight.

I do love the relationship between Maarva and Cassian, especially in a franchise that has never really had an interest in mothers and sons. And we have another mirror in the overcritical and cold relationship between Syril and Eedy as the inverse of Cassian’s complicated but loving one with Maarva - contrast the reception Syril gets when he returns home to the one Cassian gets from Maarva, as ultimately Eedy's pointed disappointment is sharp where Maarva's is borne from love and concern for Cassian.

But again there’s a disconnect with the history we’re shown - Maarva and Clem kidnap/save Kassa from Kenari but we don’t really get any sense of how Cassian feels about it or the connection he has to his heritage/childhood. I’m not saying I need everything spelled out, but sometimes I feel the show does err too much on the side of subtext, and as a result we don’t delve as deep into some of the relationships as we could have. Even her final message to Cassian - that she loves him more than anything he could ever do wrong - is a beautiful sentiment, but is it earned? He hasn't really done anything wrong, arguably she did wrong by him by taking him from Kenari but it's never even mentioned, it doesn’t even seem to be a factor in their relationship as adults.

On the other hand, I didn’t mind the treatment of the post-romantic relationship between Cassian and Bix - there’s a sense of history there but it didn’t need to be explored further. Bix's involvement in the Rebellion is interesting though, it's implied she was recruited by Kleya through the black market but are her motives purely profit or does she have rebellious fervor? Luthen knows of Cassian through Bix - did she see him as a candidate for the Rebellion or just another person from whom Luthen could obtain tech? What piqued Luthen's interest from what Bix said about him?

I don't think all these questions need answers, but it is unfortunate that she does get a bit Damseled, spending most of the runtime threatened, captured, and then tortured. On the other hand, there's less to criticise in employing that trope when it's not the only one at work and the breadth of female characters on the show.

I do wonder if we will see Bix, Brasso, and B2EMO again though, or if they’re a part of Cassian’s past he had to leave behind to fully commit himself to the Rebellion.

On nostalgia, fanservice, and the state of the Star Wars universe

A tangent into my frustrations with the sequel trilogy, skip if you’re allergic to salt.

Andor has been lauded for its lack of fanservice, although I’d actually argue it’s a show that (perhaps despite Gilroy's intention) is rooted in nostalgia. Well, perhaps not nostalgia per se, but it’s a show that relies on the audience’s knowledge and affection of Rogue One and the Original Trilogy, and it’s successful because it manages to feel authentic and fulfilling rather than ham-fisted and overly meta - a story set in the Star Wars universe, not about the Star Wars universe.

I know Gilroy intended this to be able to stand alone, but would the story have the same resonance if we weren't aware where Cassian's path leads, that the efforts and actions of Mon and Luthern, Vel and Cinta, Nemik, Bix and Kleya, are ultimately justified? Perhaps it would work in a generic sci-fi setting rather than the GFFA, but would we feel as much watching it? Personally, I think not.

Because nostalgia isn’t inherently bad. It’s a vital part of how we consume media - the stories that resonate with us in childhood will continue to resonate in adulthood because they are foundational, it's a shortcut to that incredible feeling of discovering something new that's nonetheless something very old. It's partly why Star Wars was such a success in the first place - a mix of myth and fairy tale, matinee serial and Kurosawa - a familiar story told in a new way. And like in Hadestown, "we're gonna sing it again and again."

The problem with nostalgia is when it’s empty; window dressing intended to evoke that feeling but without any substance behind it, so it feels cheap and unsatisfying. Andor doesn’t completely escape from this (blue milk, mouse droid), but most inclusions feel organic.

Sometimes I think we go to far decrying fanservice, and of course it's subjective - as I like to say, everyone hates it until they’re the fan being serviced. But there is criticism, and then there's dismissing any references to existing material as mere "fanservice" and therefore contemptible. For example, I’ve seen the treatment of Luke, Han, and Leia in the sequel trilogy defended because to actually have them interact at all would be “silly fanservice” rather than natural because, you know, they’re family.

The difference, for me, is does inclusion of a known character/object/trope/line of dialogue serve the character and/or story, or is it Leo DiCaprio pointing meme, designed for “hey it’s the thing” nostalgia and YouTube compilations with no substance behind it? Ultimately, is the inclusion Watsonian or Doylist - and if the latter, what of the former justifies it.

Mon Mothma or Saw Gerrara in Andor doesn’t feel like fanservice even though they’re existing characters, because it makes sense to include them in a story about the Rebellion’s beginning and they had a part to play in Rogue One, to which Andor is ostensibly a prequel. Conversely Leia and Vader’s inclusion in Obi-Wan Kenobi (even if I did enjoy them both) tip over in the side of fanservice because they really have no place in Obi-Wan’s story at that point and require fanwanking around their dialogue in ANH (and to be fair, Lucas was guilty of this as well). I don’t need to see random object or minor character no 6 from the PT/OT/Clone Wars, iconic catch phrase shoved where it doesn’t make sense, or obscure Legends reference divorced from context, just tell me a good story! Give me characters to care about! Make me feel something! Andor did that, where much of the other Disney Star Wars content has not.

This is my fundamental, and possibly at this point, irreconcilable, issue. Disney wanted to get away from Lucas-associated Star Wars as quickly as possible, replacing every character, planet, and theme with their own wholly Disney counterpart, killing off Han, Luke, and Leia so the old and classic couldn’t distract from the shiny and new, tearing down the conclusion of the original trilogy only to try and tell the exact same story (just not as well). They did it so quickly and so shoddily that many were understandably unsatisfied, leaving Disney to frantically course correct, going back to the well and shoving nostalgia bait into every conceivable project even (especially) if it had no place.

If they’d actually had any sort of plan for the sequel trilogy, if they’d made their focus to conclude the Skywalker Saga in a way that even approached emotional resonance, imo the vast majority of the audience would be happy to move on and embrace the next chapter - new characters, new stories. But people can’t move on from the characters they love because the treatment of those characters and the post-ROTJ timeline was so unsatisfying. Luke wouldn’t have needed to show up in The Mandolorian to try and placate the fans if treatment of the character in the ST hasn’t been so abysmal.

So LFL have been stuck in this weird ancillary storytelling space, where every project seemingly needs to be adjacent to the Skywalker Saga but not actually engaging with the Saga direct - Han has a prequel film no one asked for, Rey is a Skywalker for name recognition only, Luke pops up in pointless cameos but isn’t there when he arguably should be (just recast the damn role already!), we get young Leia in a story where she has no place rather than in one she does, who knows what’s going on with the whole Ashoka/Thrawn/Heir to the Empire stuff, Boba Fett is There with a parade of Hey it’s that character/ship/thing with no contribution to the actual storytelling.

What does this have to do with Andor? Well, Andor is perhaps the only quality tv product of the Disney era, which is fitting since Rogue One is imo the only quality film of the Disney era (TFA being retroactively diminished by what came after). Andor is the type of story Star Wars should be telling - expanding the universe, using known elements and characters where it makes sense to do so, not a collection of ideas on a whiteboard thrown in front of an LED screenstage and a bunch of meaningless easter eggs.

To be fair, this does seem what they are attempting to do with The Acolyte (which I am actually enjoying!) but the planned Rey-focused post-ST film…eh. Admittedly I never bothered to watch Rise of Skywalker, but where can the story possibly go? Is there any investment at all after the mess that was the sequel trilogy? I can’t see how the narrative can possibly be redeemed at this point, which is a shame because I do believe it started with a lot of promise in The Force Awakens that was squandered by a lack of vision, planning, and oversight, and the bizarre need to brutalise and kill off the legacy characters, marginalise the genuinely original and interesting new characters, and waste the immense acting talent they had at their disposal.

They’ve made no meaningful in-universe progress after the ST, the New Republic and Jedi have to be rebuilt again, except Rey is going to do it this time somehow, so what what the point of the last 30 years in the timeline? It’s different with Andor - we know where his story ends, but the series only makes Cassian’s sacrifice stronger, there’s emotional resonance in seeing his journey to Rogue One in knowing that it’s in service of the overall victory of the Rebellion (however undermined that victory is made by the ST).

But I digress. This rant really ended up being kind of off topic - apologies.

Anyway. Andor is good! I liked it! Looking forward to season 2!

[david-talks-sw]

Where do you sorta stand in terms of "Adhering to Lucas's" vision but also like "Well Lucas isn't making it so Star Wars is open to interpretation" Like don't get me wrong I don't like Karen Travesis's take on Star Wars for a whole host of reason and I think if anyone ever did a story and said "Well the Empire is right" then you are completely doing Star Wars wrong. But if someone legit wanted to do a story having a critical eye on the Jedi Order or IDK the Republic or even coming at Star Wars in a way that George Lucas wouldn't cover it cuz they are ideologically different, IDK, how far should that go?

I think the main thing to keep in mind is that it stays consistent with the spirit of what George Lucas was trying to say, if not the letter.

You can try alternative narratives, focus on certain characters, do it in different genres, but at the end of the day the message needs to stay the same.

And if you can't do that, at least try to be fair about your criticism of that message.

Different narrative, same conclusion

You can explore and certainly argue that the Empire brought about order and peace, and that it is better than the chaos and war present during the Republic.

You can argue that maybe, if instead of a Sith Lord who rules by fear, the Emperor was a benevolent dictator who lead by example, then the Empire wouldn't be as bad.

Legends stories have done this before.

You can even argue that the Rebels are terrorists and that the attack on the Death Star was the equivalent of 9-11 for the Imperial citizens, like this guy does.

But at the end of the day, that's a fallacy.

The previously-shown Empire storyline makes it clear that Moff Trachta is ambitious and greedy, as are his fellow conspirators. They're hypocrites who tell themselves "it's for the greater good" but really it's just so they can backstab each other to have the top job.

And the war the Empire's peace replaces was one orchestrated by the Emperor himself, so the entire regime is based on a lie, because really the only thing the Empire's system runs on is greed and fear, as shown in Andor.

Finally, while some of the Rebels' methods are hard and dark in nature... it's a war. And the narrative makes it clear that at the end of the day, the enemy they're fighting are space nazis. And 90% of the stormtroopers we're shown range from bullies to extremists. That one Imp pilot saying "millions died on the Death Star" also mocked Cara Dune for the genocide of her people, seconds prior.

The smaller narrative may take some deviations, it may question some aspects, but the larger one is consistent.

The moral of the story remains the same: the Empire is evil.

Different tone & characters, same message

When George Lucas made the six films, he had a very clear idea in mind, in terms of genre and style: imitating the Saturday matinee specials (think Flash Gordon), blend them with long standing psychological motifs derived from mythology, add dash of Buddhist philosophy: you get Star Wars, a movie for kids.

But I would fully expect a horror movie about a stormtrooper being hunted by an ice spider to go "fuck this 'we're all connected, we're all symbioms' bullshit. Die you creepy bastard!"

Same goes for Andor.

It's not rated PG-18, but it's still very dark. This isn't a movie for kids, it's a movie for teens and older. It opens with the eponymous character shooting someone in the face.

In Andor (and Rogue One) we see a side of the Rebellion we hadn't seen before. A darker one. But the genre of those productions demands a darker outlook on these concepts.

Cassian lives in a world where everything is nuances of gray.

He's the perfect kind of character to tell this story.

As is Dedra Meero. She is written as an underdog in the first half of the show. You're rooting for her. But then the series reminds you that: "hey, she's as much a nazi as the rest of them". She's willing to torture people to keep her job or get a promotion. The narrative frames her as ultimately evil.

Because at the end of the day the message is the same. The Empire is evil and it takes regular people to beat the elite 1%. Greed vs compassion, fear vs hope.

Now suppose there was a series opening on a "Gray Jedi" character, juggling between the Dark and Light Side with little to no effort or repercussion, sabering someone in the face.

That fucks with the message. Because it's okay for Cassian to do it, because Cassian doesn't need to deal with space magic, he lives in an un-mystical, cold and harsh part of the galaxy where you're either evil or less bad, rarely good.

But the 6 films make it clear that for Force sensitives, things are binary. They have to be or bad shit happens.

Gray morality works in Star Wars if we're talking about non-Force sensitives. In the case of a Force user, that's a darksider waiting to happen.

Criticizing the narrative via unreliable narrators

You mentioned Karen Traviss. For all my criticism re: her stance on the Jedi philosophy and their relation with the clones, I think her definition of Boba Fett is the best one yet (probably because she actually likes that character).

As a result of this personality, an eventual Boba Fett film would have to be Jedi-critical, because if you ask him, the Jedi took his father away from him. And you can argue using logical points all you want, his pain is emotional, not rational. Him being right or wrong is irrelevant, his pain is real.

Same goes with the recent Tales of the Jedi.

Dooku's an unreliable narrator, he is a character notorious for lying to himself and to others, he's poisonous and deceitful.

Of course three short films shown through his point of view would cast him in a noble "free thinking" light and the Jedi as infuriatingly obtuse.

The problem comes in when the author steps in and sides with the unreliable character with a subjective opinion and says that character is objectively right.

Okay, so now we have a situation where you've deviated from the established narrative.

You're having someone say the Jedi are asleep at the wheel and Dooku is the only one ahead of the curb when the movies and TCW show us the Jedi being just as aware and frustrated as Dooku is.

You're having someone say the Jedi can do more than what they're already doing, when Lucas' story shows us that there's really not much more that can be done, and Lucas himself confirms as much.

Which brings me to my final point.

Being fair with the criticism.

That's what it comes down to for me.

You can criticize the Jedi Order (I do so right here). But just be fair about it. And be informed.

For example, you can question whether the Jedi's rule of non-attachment is good or not.

But first you gotta know what attachment means, in the context of Star Wars. It does not mean "emotional attachments", aka "relationships". And it's not about repression.

So if you go into it thinking either of those things then your criticism isn't really 1) informed 2) done in good faith.

Because in Star Wars, the term "attachment" is used in the Buddhist sense. It's not about depriving yourself of bonds, it's about being able to let go and move on from who/what you love, when it's time.

Other example: you can argue the Jedi "accepted" the use of a clone army bred for combat because "we don't see it in the movies"... but you'd be disingenuous.

Because Attack of the Clones takes place over a bunch of days. You're not gonna be shown every second of those days. That'd be like arguing that "we never see Mace Windu eat in athemovie, so Mace is unable to eat".

AOTC is a movie about how Anakin fell in love with Padmé and lost his mother, and how Palpatine rose to power by engineering a war, a storyline shown through his and Obi-Wan's POV. The film isn't gonna stop and touch on a point that isn't directly relevant to those two storylines.

In TCW, you see the Jedi, some Senators and some civilians are the only people to treat the clones like, y'know, people. To argue the above, you'd have to deliberately ignore the 12 Jedi we're shown caring for their troops and just focus on Pong Krell.

Also, I think we've criticized the Jedi Order enough. Don't you think?

Different artists, mediums and tales have done it so much that the very clear, very obvious message of the Prequels has been twisted into something else.

If you look up any George Lucas interview between 1999 and 2021, he'll say it's about Anakin and the Senate's greed, it's about how a good kid becomes a bad man and how a democracy becomes a dictatorship. The Prequels weren't about the Jedi.

Instead of challenging the notion that the Jedi are good, which has been done baselessly for over a decade, I think it would now be fair to explore whether the Prequel Jedi were all that bad.

Oh. We're not trying to be fair? My bad then. Let's keep misinterpreting the source material because we like it more that way then say it was how it was originally intended to be.

[thedirtiwalkoniswet]

I finished the Obi Wan series and wow it is... not good.

I just watched the bad batch (actually solo inbetween but that was so bad I won't mention it further) and this show surprised me with how good it was. When these characters were introduced in season 7 of clone wars I was sure I wouldn't like the show, because they annoyed the hell out of me. But then I actually got to watching the show and it was good all the way through.

So Obi Wan was a whiplash. I have a lot of thoughts.

It's bad. It's so bad. For one, it looks cheap. The main reason I think is the lighting, half the time it is so painfully obvious it was filmed in a studio, and it takes any emergence that you could've had. They also could've color graded a little, it is boring to look at. Additionally is everything so stale, nothing in the background moves, there is 0 wind essentially in the show. The budget also definetly didn't went into make up and costume design, but that is so obvious it's barely worth noting and not the worst part.

The worst part, by far, is the dialog however. The actors are great, I know they are great, but they still struggle so hard to make the dialog sound normal and they can barely do that, because it is so, so bad. They just string random sentences together that don't make sense as a whole anymore. The actors can't react properly to the dialog, because in real life you'd look at them with the most confused face, like what the hell are you talking about bro. It is a shame that great actors are wasted on terrible dialog, that could have easily been better.

Additionally is the camera work quite odd. It can be decent occasionally, I think the scene were "Leia" gets dressed was nicely done and so are some other scenes. But then you get the scenes like when Reva was climbing on these buildings, which had terrible camerawork. Don't get me wrong, there is charm in the camera not being completely stiff, but they're just shaking it around whenever a fight scene comes up or any scene that isn't completely peaceful. It is jarring and makes the show look like a fan project, and not even a good one.

The action scenes also feel slow somehow. I know I can't compare it to a cartoon, obviously not. But I can compare it to action scenes from the prequels or Andor. In Obi Wan, it very much feels like the characters are holding back, when they clearly shouldn't be. Everyone is running and moving so slowly, it only makes me frustrated to see. I fear it might be because the actors weren't given enough time to rehearse or not enough care was put into choreographing/ editing. Even the fight between Vader and Obi Wan at the end was meh, and that was for most the best part. Yeah, it's cool he can use the force again, yeah it's sad that he has to accept that Anakin is not there anymore and Vader is all that's left. But... what else? This was what the entire show led up to and it could have been better. At least the location was extremely cool.

Tragically I'm still not done. Because another issue is that it is simply not a good experience. I'm not saying it has to be a happy one, but even tragic stories can make you engaged and riled up. It was a very bold desiscion to completely change Obi Wan, considering that in episode 3 and 4, he is extremely similar. So they had to change him just to bring him back to who we knew. Usually I LOVE angst, I think it is so interesting to see characters who you love go through hard times and evolve and change. But somehow it didn't work with him at all. I blame it mostly on the writing being so in your face, so bland and without nuance. Star wars was never known for good dialog, but usually that was George Lucas' fault and he wasn't really involved in the writing as far as I know.

There are good ideas sprinkled in. But it mostly felt like somebody said "you know what would be cool to see?" and then they wrote the plot around it to make it happen. (Like that pick up driver or whatever the space version would be)

Maybe I have so much to say because it is a huge shame. It could've been good, it could have been great. And yet it is genuinely terrible, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. To me this is some of the worst star wars media I have seen out of what I watched so far. Only Solo being worse (I fucking hate that movie). BUT I do think it's salvagable. They could make a fantastic season 2, it is very easily possible if they only put more effort in the writing and maybe fire Chung Chung-Hoon.

If you like it I am super happy for you, I know I ripped it apart, but please don't let me ruin something you like, despite all of this. My uncle loved this show and I can't talk to him about the show because I am not blinded by nostalgia bait. You can tangle any familiar character in front of him and he will most likely like it. (He liked Boba Fett and I haven't seen anyone liking it yet, but I haven't watched this one either so I don't have an opinion yet)

[roseaesynstylae]

Star Wars: Republic Commando: Hard Contact, Chapter 2

"Clone personnel have free will, even if they do follow orders. If they couldn't think for themselves, we'd be better off with droids -- and they're a lot cheaper, too. They have to be able to respond to situations we can't imagine. Will that change them in ways we can't predict? Perhaps. But they have to be mentally equipped to win wars. Now thaw these men out. They have a job to do.

-- Jedi Master Arligan Zey, intelligence officer"

I'm going to add any of these...I'm not sure what these extracts at the beginning of the chapters are properly called, but I'll add them whenever they're interesting.

Zey's comment about the clones reminds me of the line from Andor. "We're cheaper than droids, and easier to replace." The difference here is that while clones are more expensive and harder to replace than droids, they're superior.

And yes, Master Zey, it did change them in unexpected ways.

"It didn't feel so bad to be revived after stasis. He was still a commando. They hadn't reconditioned. That meant -- that meant he'd performed to expected standards at Geonosis. He'd done well. He felt positive."

The implication that "under-performing" clones are brainwashed, at best, is one of the Traviss's additions that I genuinely like, emphasizing the cold detachment of the Kaminoans before they become prominent in the series. It's also just a terrifying idea.

"Darman was careful not to stare -- even though any eye movement was disguised by his helmet -- because Jedi knew things without having to see. His instructors had told him so. Jedi were omniscient, omnipotent, and to be obeyed at all times."

And here we see the official beginning of the Jedi-Bashing count. It's subtler here, but it keeps popping up in ways that are unmistakable in the context of the series' attitude toward the Jedi Order. In multiple cases, such as this one, lines that wouldn't make me bat an eye in a different book, (or more accurately, a different author), but make me grit my teeth here.

The way this specific paragraph is written is very similar to how I'd write a passage from the POV of a character who thinks the antagonist is a good person, or is brainwashed, but I want to make it clear what's really going on. Only in this case, it isn't portraying, say, a Sith cult, but the Jedi Order, which is devoted to helping others, enforcing justice, and studying the Force.

Jedi-Bashing: 1

"'This is your unit of four, then? A squad?' He seemed to be recalling a hurried lesson. 'Almost like a family?'"

This might be a stretch, but I'm not cutting this series an iota of slack when it comes to the Jedi Order. The implication here seems to be "Oh look, the Jedi have no idea what a family is! It's so unnatural and wrong, not like the good, wholesome Mandalorians!" Am I being petty? Maybe. Does Kal Skirata ranting about baby-stealers get really fucking old really fucking fast? Definitely.

Jedi-Bashing: 2

"'My squad called me Atin," the wounded commando said.

Niner glanced at Fi but said nothing. Atin was Mandalorian for 'stubborn.'"

Okay, this bit is just funny.

"Darman -- a soldier able to withstand every privation in the field, and whose greatest fear was to whither from age rather than die in combat -- felt inexplicably uncomfortable at the idea of a Jedi having failings."

Jedi-Bashing: 3

"Etain was neither a natural warrior nor a great charmer, but she was aware of her talent for spotting opportunities. It made up for a lot."

In this book, at least, I really like Etain. She's a good audience surrogate and her headspace is easier to get into than the other three narrators.

Jedi-Bashing: 3

Di'kut Count: 1

Main Post

[fandom-blahs]

Just some thoughts

Just some thoughts. ....

ASOIAF as an IP not being overly saturated to the general audience and the years between GOT and HOTD def helped the reception and success of S1 HOTD.

Idk about the other shows they want to make, including the animated ones. At that point the burnout or oversaturation will be very real but will something like the Yi Ti show "feel" like ASOIAF or like just a grimdark anime. With HOTD it's a bit obvious that nothing really has to "feel" like GRRM's writing and in fact for many that's a good thing. I'm saying that based on how people responded to book readers who were disappointed by certain aspects of HOTD only for GRRM himself to double down on the disappointment expressed by book purists. But none of that actually matters lol people just wanted white haired fantasy race and dragons without any of what makes GRRM's writing or characters feel unique. I guess you could easily make the claim that GOT did it already by watering down many characters just so they can be likable or palatable to the general audience....and it worked

Aegon's Conquest and the stage play will do really well, I have no doubt about it. Aegon's showrunners might be obsessed with subverting it same way that Ryan and Co are when it comes to HOTD and D&D were towards the end, but it'll be funny to see tbh.

Idk about the Nine Voyages I guess it depends on how much HOTD can get the audience to care about Corlys but if MCU got people to care enough about Agatha even though the concept of her show (giving a spinoff to a "literally who" character) was a running joke for years ... I don't see why not. It helped that Agatha was a good show at the end. But so far the fact the showrunners don't have original material to work with is the main excuse for writing being shit so idk that isn't something to look forward to when they'll essentially have to make up shit for almost every single project they announced.

if they dump a lot of money into the animation side maybe, that's what drove the initial interest for Arcane. Dunk and Egg is a good story anyway but we'll see when KOTSK comes out.

Star Wars doesn't do so well because of the oversaturation but people still show up for it's games. I was pleasantly surprised to hear unanimous praise for Andor. MCU and DCU also have a problem with oversaturation but idk to me DC's Batman stuff always feels like an event, I was surprised Penguin was as good as it was.

All in all it feels very weird to see the "marvelisation" of ASOIAF but I know GRRM expressed excitement at the idea. It's just a shame that for book viewers all of those mediocre shows seem to take the priority over...actually finishing the main series

[ddejavvu]

speaking of, how would you recommend getting into star wars? i’ve been wanting to get into it because of your blog but i don’t know if it’s necessary to watch all of the movies or if i can just watch the series that are on disney… basically any advice you give me i will listen to 😭

if you want to see the characters I write about, you'll need to see at least the first 6 movies! that sounds like a lot, and it is, but they're enjoyable, and you can take them slowly.

the original trilogy, the main star wars movies, are episodes 4, 5, and 6. You'll watch them in order, 4 (A New Hope), 5 (Empire Strikes Back), and 6 (Return of the Jedi). After you watch those 3 movies, you can move onto the prequels, which is the main trilogy that I write about (Obi-Wan and Anakin are both a part of the prequel trilogy). You'll watch episode 1 (The Phantom Menace), 2 (Attack of the Clones), and 3 (Revenge of the Sith). It's important to watch the movies in that order, (4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 1 -> 2 -> 3) as that's the order they were released in, and subsequently how they were intended to be viewed.

There are three movies beyond those six, the 'sequel trilogy', and while they have their good moments, I've never written about any of their characters before, so you won't go into it with any exposure to those movies. They have.. a bad reputation, and I can't say I disagree with it, but it's really not the actors' fault; the movies were written differently than the previous ones and not a lot of people enjoyed that new writing style. Regardless, I think they're still worth watching, if only to get a full scope of the 'Skywalker Saga'. So, if you're going to give them a shot, the movies should be watched in this order: 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 9.

After those movies, if you're interested, you can start peppering in some of the television series. The one I write most adjacent to is The Clone Wars, a 7 season animated show with an accompanying movie that should be watched before the series. That show details a war effort that features Anakin and Obi-Wan as well as their fellow Jedi. I highly recommend it, it's very popular within the fandom and for good reason.

After clone wars, you might be interested in shows like The Mandalorian, Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Book of Boba Fett, Andor, The Bad Batch, Rebels, Ahsoka, or the animated shorts Tales of the Jedi.

I know this all sounds overwhelming when it's laid out like this, but don't panic. You are, of course, not required to watch anything at all, but I wanted to lay out a map of the content you'd be most likely to consume if you wanted to get into the franchise. At the very least, I think the movies are a good chunk of the franchise; you can watch them and be completely satisfied with star wars without ever touching the shows, or the numerous comics and novels that accompany that content.

however you indulge in the franchise, i hope you enjoy it! It can be a lot of content but it's my personal opinion that a lot of it is worthwhile, and what isn't can be made up for with what is.

[mk-wizard]

Top 10 Media that deserve a reboot

Now, this list might be controversial to some, but hear me out. As an artist and storyteller, I don't believe in bad ideas. Just badly executed ideas. I am going to list 10 media that I do believe had potential, still have potential and had great plot ideas as well as characters behind them, but could have been better. In fact, I believe they deserve another chance because the medias themselves were not bad. They were just done bad, but as the remake of Resident 2, 3 and 4 have shown us, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

Note that there are also spoilers ahead and I will not include the Acolyte on this list because it still ongoing and I will not list a media that isn't finished yet. That isn't fair.

1- The Mummy (2017) - This adaptation of the Mummy had potential as it was frightening, it had a good plot and the idea of it being the doorway to a bigger universe was good buildup. Also, this take on the Mummy was the stuff of nightmares in all the right ways. I mean, even visually, she was frightening especially with those trademark eyes. I loved that. However, I find they did too much, too fast with hinting at a bigger universe and should have focused solely on the Mummy. With that said, if you just fix that and clean up the other mistakes, it could succeed where the first try failed. Maybe even succeed at finally opening up the door to that bigger monster universe we never got to see.

2- The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy - I have not given up on Star Wars nor shall I because it still giving us new stuff that is that is good or at the very least, has good potential such as the Clone Wars, Rebels, Andor and The Bad Batch. In fact, even the sequel trilogy itself had potential, but it's biggest mistake in my opinion was that it chose the wrong character to be the hero. It should have Finn not Rey. In fact, I think Rey should have gone down the path of the Sith with Kylo Ren being a red herring big bad. It's second biggest mistake is was the choppy storytelling. The three films did not feel cohesive and the lack of respect for legacy characters was not very nice. I would not have killed off Han, split up Han and Leia, and so on. It needs a reboot with some tweaking.

3- Spider-Man 3 (the Raimi films) - This one makes me sad because it was not bad, but the forced inclusion of Venom really did leave a mark on it (no pun intended). Even Sam Raimi knew that including him in the film was a bad idea, but his hand was forced. In all fairness, the characters acting out of character didn't help either especially when Peter kissed another girl for publicity. Peter Parker would never do that especially when intending to marry Mary Jane. If this film was rebooted the way Raimi really wanted it to be, it would not only be great, but give this series the jumpstart to continue onto the plans he had for his Spider-Man film series.

4- Marvel's Spider-Man (2017 cartoon) - I have another article that explores in detail everything wrong with this cartoon, so to keep it brief, it introduced many great fresh ideas that I loved such as turning Harry Osborne into a hero, making Doc Conners into a bad guy from the get-go, the first cartoon introduction of Miles Morales, great story arc ideas and more. However, I find that the story's downfall is that was too watered down and kid friendly. This cartoon should have been aimed at older teens, Peter Parker should have been the focus and the ONLY Spider with crossovers being put to a minimum, taking its time with the storytelling, less humor, more grit and seriousness, making Doc Ock into an adult, and eliminating that gifted school altogether. Spider-Man needs his own cartoon more than ever, but one where he is shown as a hero not a clown.

5- The Walking Dead TV Series - I have great memories about this show and I was cool with it not following the comic. In some ways, that was its strength, but after season 3, the show lost its way. It stopped being emotion driven, the human element was gone and character development as well as relationship development was gone. Not to mention, the seasonal rot (pardon the pun) began to show. I think this show's greatest downfall was that it went on for too long and should have stopped while it was ahead. With that said, it deserves a reboot where it can retold and remain polished and well written from beginning to end.

6- The Incredibles 2 - I love the Incredibles in general. However, the sequel... it's a mixed bag. I like that the story was continuing, I liked Screen Slaver and I liked that the world was being explored further, but I did not like that it was just a sub-par retelling of the first film while featuring Elastigirl instead of Mr. Incredible. Don't get me wrong, I love Elastigirl/Helen Parr, but I think the way the Incredibles should have continued (as mentioned in another article I wrote once) was as a TV series where the characters age and develop. I mean, who wouldn't love a family sitcom-superhero TV series? Continuing the story is a must, but with new plots and having the story actually progress.

7- Every Pirates of the Caribbean film after the first - Like the Incredibles, the first film was perfect and having the story continue was a genius idea, but it should have continued as a TV series. I love Davey Jones and Jack having his own adventures, but I did not like how the character unlikable especially Jack Sparrow. I admit he is a pirate at the of the day, but he was one with a good heart. By the end of the series, he was a horrible person and I didn't like that. In many ways, I wasn't even sure if I liked any of the characters with how they became in the end. Moreover, Barbossa should have remained dead. Period. That doesn't mean this franchise doesn't deserve a reboot. It does and the characters should have developed in a way that makes them likeable. Maybe even have Jack grow up a little. There are so many things you can do with pirates.

8- Every Robocop media that came after the first film - Hear me out please with this one. I find that all of the sequel media of Robocop had great idea and concepts that could have worked, and still would work. Even the remake had some good points. The problem is, all of them could have been better. Even the video game was a lot of fun, but from a storytelling point of view, it too had the same problem all of the other media did. The plot was not progressing and Robocop/Alex Murphy would keep regressing as a character back into acting like a robot. Robocop needs a reboot sequel where the story actually goes on and all the progress he made as a man in the first film gets carried over to the next chapter. A good example are the comics, but even them too... they fall into the trap of the story being stuck. I want to see a sequel where the world of Robocop actually moves on and where things happen beyond Robocop just saving the day. Most importantly, I would reboot the sequel media as an episodic TV series. Not a film. Alex Murphy's journey is too complex and long to be told in just one or two movies.

9- Batman Beyond - I can't say there was much wrong with this series. I think it was pretty flawless and Terry McGinnis did indeed come into his own as the next Batman. My only complaint about it is how it ended. Terry McGinnis does not need to be the convoluted genetically modified son of Bruce Wayne. It defeats the whole purpose of him being his own Batman and own man in general. I think Terry should remain unrelated to Bruce and for their bond to just spiritually be foster father and foster son. It was just fine like that. If I also had to find another thing wrong with this series is that... it ended too suddenly and too soon. I would love to see Terry don the Batman identity again. He was cool and I miss him. Plus, there is still so many things that remained unresolved.

10 - Spider-Man: One More Day - It is quite obvious what went wrong with this storyline. It not only retconned Peter and MJ's marriage and family, it retconned their adulthood and character development. After that, the story of Spider-Man in the comics has just never been the same. While presenting a story where Aunt May was dying and Peter was faced with the choice of saving her at the cost of erasing his new life or keeping his new life while accepting Aunt May passing on was a good idea... having Peter choose to save Aunt May and give up his new life he worked so hard to build was a mistake. Rather than retconning this comic, I think rebooting it with a much better message would fix everything for Spider-Man and the Spider-Man community in general. Just when Spider-Man is about to make the deal with Mephisto, Aunt May herself catches wind of what Peter is going to do and, like in the video games, stops him from making the selfish decision of only saving her. She explains to Peter while getting ill is not ideal, she is old to begin with and even then, got to experience many wonderful things and got to see him grow up and get married. Plus, erasing his life with MJ wouldn't just negatively impact his life, but also MJ's and the lives all those he touched around him. Aunt May would convince Peter that her life alone is not more important the many lives that would get changed without consent. She has accepted that her time has come and that both Peter and MJ must accept it too with grace and not let any devil tempt them to do otherwise. In the end, Peter and MJ turn down Mephisto's deal which does result in a fight which Spider-Man wins with help. It also ends with Aunt May succumbing to her illness and dying, but her soul is at peace and as much as everyone is heartbroken by her passing, Peter and MJ see all the friends surrounding them in their time of mourning and accept that allowing this to happen was the right thing to do. Aunt May was important to them, but so is everyone else who is still here with them, everything they made together and everything that is going to happen after. It also ends with MJ discovering that she is pregnant which drives the point home all the more.

And that's my list. What do you think?

[legionofpotatoes]

For real, your take on Mando season 3 is completely on point. But I get not feeling able to say it out loud without a disclaimer before, after, and in the tags to keep from getting shouted at in the reblogs. It's just the messed up nature of being in the SW fandom on Tumblr. Speaking your mind on your own blog is an invitation for buffoonery.

If I were completely honestly, I'm not in the least shocked that's what we got. I've long held the opinion that the worst part about the fandom is the fan opinions and expectations out of a new series, and the expectation that a formula for a show won't change, or that a character will maintain one set mentality/trope while simultaneously offering new, completely different story arcs. It isn't necessarily impossible to pull off, but it takes very careful planning and execution. And, unfortunately, that has never been a strength in this franchise, even before Disney ownership.

For most shows, it's the season 5 slump. After 5 seasons, all the flavor is gone and any additional seasons are painfully rehashed at best. For all the corporate financial squeezing that's been done to Mando since the beginning of the show to wring out revenue like its a wet washcloth, it really tracks that were in this place after only 3 seasons.

IMO the only thing that's going to save Andor is the fact that the end of the story has already been told in Rogue One and its confirmed that season 2 will end at that point of the timeline. If it was going to be a 3+ season show, I suspect we'd see the same treatment.

Anyway, I'll stop flapping my gums in your ask box. Your hot take encapsulated what felt off about this season to me. I couldn't put words to it, but it just felt....meh.

I just disable reblogs and try not to tag it in an inflammatory way, my gripes are genuinely like. basic semiotics and story sense, I'm not going after anyone's childhood or feel-goodness. This is all me-problems and me-expectations with a massive machine of commerce that will never give a shit lmao

I too wrote a couple of posts back in s2 days expecting something of this sort going forward after the weirdly presumptuous cameo-baiting of s2 and whatever in the goddamn hell boba fett did with its mando tie-ins, but an entire season of tirespinning sure was a surprising choice. I think writing for TV is fundamentally different than writing for film, so I didn't really see a clear parallel of incompetence within the franchise; and especially with season 1 being so solid in balancing both the overarching and the episodic stuff I felt like they had a neat ramp to milk a decently long character piece out of.

But I can't help but feel like my main problem with the disney/abrams/filoni/favreau era of star wars is its irrationally strong love for the aesthetic. it blinds them to good choices that will then make for interesting stories. gently deradicalizing, humanizing, and then literally AND figuratively getting din out of his shell so he could open up to a child's love could be such an effective, simple to parse, and wholesome core to structure the series around, but that would upend the aesthetic of their cowboy-ass romp a bit too fast and have an end and an identity and all that non-marketing friendly stuff. so they keep withholding his psyche, they keep giving then taking clear communication tools away from grogu, they keep teasing their bond but never outright stating it (I cannot believe after 3 seasons he still hasn't just looked at the baby and directly confessed he loved him), so they can keep bumping those goalposts back and forth while pretending it's progress. because they are in love with the aesthetic.

again, this is my main problem, I don't see this as a problem writ large or even something that represents a wrong way to do star wars. who the hell even knows how you treat a franchise that large at this point, what importance you assign to aesthetic vs. story, all that jazz. I don't know. they're the ones with the analytics data, so they definitely know better. and maybe that's the saddest part

[bearpillowmonster]

Bad Batch S2

I figured finish 2 before starting 3. 2 just wasn't appealing to me because I didn't like the first one enough, it seemed like it was littered with too many cameos, some enjoyable but some way too pandering, it felt like it couldn't stand on its own two feet. It wasn't bad overall though so I gave two a shot after some many months and while it sounded appealing with them being treasure hunters, I just couldn't get behind it. S2 is like every good episode has two bad ones but they aren't necessarily in order so you might get 4 bad ones before you get 2 good ones.

People pit Dave Filoni as the master of the franchise now but I'm not necessarily convinced because this was all him, as far as I can tell. Picking a successor to lead Star Wars is like picking a quarterback to win your Super Bowl, while Dave has experience and has produced the most enjoyable bouts (especially having Atla under his belt) he hasn't necessarily been consistent in my opinion. Sometimes I wonder if expanding the Skywalker era is even a good idea in the first place because they're at planning retirement for the clones...with pensions and all that junk. They're trying to solve the veteran problem...in Star Wars. While that digs deep into the lore, it treads close to what I was saying about Andor with it showing us too many unnecessary bits. Don't get me wrong, that was one of the good bits, I feel like the Bad Batch sort of started showing the actual transition of clones to stormtroopers and I really like that idea but it's few and far between a lot of the time.

But it feels like you're out of luck if you don't like a character, Cid for example is pretty unlikable for a lot of people, maybe she's meant to be that way, whatever but we see a good bit of her. Organa? We see him almost every Star Wars series now, I get that he jumped the rebellion but isn't there something about bringing about the remaining scraps of the alliance on Alderaan after its demise to take down the Empire in the first place? Now there's a billion rebels, now there's a billion lost jedi, which I've complained about before but I'll do it again. Again, if it's the point of the series, it makes sense, Jedi Fallen Order did a great job with this because it was the point, to get the list of jedi, attaching a number to that could only make it more tense and I believe at some point, it was George's plan was to have a Vader saga where he hunted these jedi down. All those ideas sound cool but if they show up time and time again in a story unrelated, it just seems like you have a jedi there to have a jedi, like it's some sort of propaganda similar to the ending of the Last Jedi. The best episodes here are ones that don't involve lightsabers. It's all overexposed.

With that said, I dropped S2 until I saw S3 was coming and brought back Asajj. So, their propaganda worked in a way. And really, S2 didn't have as many cameos as I thought it might, in fact, I found myself getting attached to one of the characters. I've always liked the crew ever since I saw them in TCW but I thought about who I would be most sad for if something happened, it's Echo. He just has always stuck out in my mind, Hunter too, but Echo has the story. The others were born that way and grew to be brothers but Echo was an accepted family because of his condition and I just find that so loving. I also really love where they leave this season off, it has a lot of potential for this next season, having Omega sort of visit another side of everything, so I can at least say that while S1 didn't get me hyped for S2, S2 got me hyped for S3.

[superfan44]

Don't Be Quick to Judge the Acolyte (A Star Wars Opinion Piece)

I have always loved Star Wars. Ever since being introduced to the original trilogy as a kid, I have been a massive fan of this legendary sci-fi franchise. From one of my all-time favorites The Clone Wars, to the more recent shows like The Mandalorian, I always get a sense of joy and excitement whenever a new piece of Star Wars media is introduced or announced. Of all the related projects set to come out this year, the one that has intrigued me the most, is the live-action series "The Acolyte". First announced back in 2020, all of the details that I have heard regarding this series I find fascinating. A mystery thriller set during the High Republic Era, with an emphasis on showing the perspective of the Sith and drawing influence from martial arts movies. Some of these details are the things that really drew me towards it. Aside from its main space opera trappings, Star Wars has been known to explore various sub genres, especially in some of their most recent projects. These details alone have me both excited and curious to see what this series will bring to the table.

However, while I wait in anticipation, I noticed that not everyone seems to share the same feelings as me. On the internet, there has been plenty of negative discourse towards the series, mostly towards a few of the casting choices and the creatives involved in the series. It honestly still kind of baffles me as to why people are so quick to be so judgmental on a series that isn't even out yet. I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge this series.

As someone who has seen a lot of movies and TV shows, I always like to approach everything with an open mind. I don't judge something based on what I want it to be, rather I just take it for what it is, regardless of how it ends up turning out. The same can certainly be said for Star Wars. I've been aware of the discourse surrounding the controversial sequel trilogy. Though I didn't outright hate them like some people did. When I saw each one in the theater, I just took them as they came, paying no mind to the nitpicks or flaws unless some people point them out afterwards.

When it comes to a massive IP such as this one, you're bound to have some people who will dislike or disagree with some of the narrative choices you make. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but that doesn't mean that we should say hateful things just for kicks, nor should we let some people influence how you feel about something. I've heard some people say that there is a fine difference between "good" and "fun". I don't want to name names here, but I will say that even if some parts of Star Wars aren't perfect, it can still be fun to watch. Sometimes there are even parts of Star Wars that are both good and fun, the original trilogy being an obvious example.

Look, if I'm being honest, I don't like trash-talking Star Wars because, at the end of the day, it does still mean a lot to me. Plus, to their credit, some of the newer stuff under Disney have had some hits here and there. The best example I can bring up is Andor, the prequel/spin-off to Rogue One. I remember when it was first announced, people weren't really as enthused about it, some even saying things like "nobody asked for this!". Then, the trailers dropped, and it began to draw people towards it. When the series officially dropped, it turned out to be a big hit with both critics and audiences.

With all that being said, I believe that the same thing might happen with The Acolyte. I have a feeling that the show might surprise us when it drops and turn out to be a hit. Of course, we don't know for sure, but until then, I say we should at least give this one a chance. Let's not be so quick to judge it.

[knightsofrayx]

tumblr’s being a lil shit and saying it wasn’t able to send an ask, so apologies if this is in your inbox twice or anything, but what are your fav pieces of star wars media?

(Lol this one showed up and then what I'm guessing was your initial ask popped up a couple minutes later)

Anyways, favorite pieces of Star Wars media?

I mean, obviously there's the Original Trilogy. They're a classic. As for the Prequels... I really love playing in the pre-empire sandbox, but in terms of actually enjoying this trilogy, it is more for how it laid the groundwork for greater stories than the actual plot (and well, of course the memes). And the Sequel Trilogy? I didn't love it, but I also didn't hate it? Like, they definitely tried to flesh out the situation to be more complex and nuanced, but kinda dropped the ball on it. I think it had the potential for greatness, but they just kept falling short on the delivery.

One of my early favorites was the "Jedi Quest" book series by Jude Watson, which takes place between The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. It was the first piece of media I was exposed to that got into what life as a Jedi (at least pre-empire) was like. And also, it introduced the character Darra Thel-Tanis, who was one of the first female Jedi characters I had come across (I don't count anyone who showed up in the prequel movies because literally none of them had speaking roles). Granted, back when I first read the books a lot of it went over my head as I was about 7-8 years old, but I hold a nostalgic fondness for the series even though it's no longer considered canon.

Another one I really enjoyed was the "Young Jedi Knights" series, which follows Han and Leia's children Jaina and Jacen as they train in the Force and deal with the threats of the remnants of the Sith and the Empire. It's been a while since I've gone over them, but I remember the series just being filled with so much world-building stuff, as well as a good depiction of what a post-empire galaxy would look like.

The "Crimson Empire" and "Dark Empire" comics were also pretty memorable. They dabbled in the palpatine clones (and honestly did a much better job of it than Disney) and kind of serve as a prequel to the "Young Jedi Knights". But "Crimson Empire" specifically stands out to me because it was the first Star Wars content I came across where the main character was "one of the bad guys". Just... having that alternate point of view was eye-opening.

I'm not really a video game person (my gaming consists of Lego Star Wars wii and building castles in creative Minecraft), but I do love the storylines in Fallen Order, Battlefront: Inferno Squad/Resurrection, and KOTOR and it's expansions.

Are we counting music? Because in that case pretty much everything both from the OSTs and the epic orchestrations (I have multiple playlists dedicated solely to Star Wars music).

Moving on to the TV shows

I haven't actually watched Andor yet (i know, I'm a disgrace), but I have high hopes based on what I've heard.

I have a love/hate relationship with the Mandalorian. I mean, it's cool, Baby Yoda's cute and the little bits of world-building are nice; plus actually showing how even though the Rebellion won at Endor and toppled the Empire, it still exists (that just killing Palpatine isn't enough to "fix" the galaxy, and not everyone is going to just accept another regime change). And I just love Mandalorians. They're freakin awesome, so having an entire show dedicated to them was cool.

But my main problem with the show was how it practically ignored so much of what Star Wars had already done with Mandalorians. Earlier canon stuff (such as The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels) already gave us some pretty solid background and lore to Mandalorian culture and history, and it feels like they kinda just brushed it off in the show (I mean, come on. They literally went all three seasons without even name-dropping Satine) (also, Mandalorians have their own language, multiple dialects of it even, yet we pretty much only heard them speak Galactic Standard. I am saltier than the Dead Sea about this). I also just, expected it to be a little more dark and angsty than what we got (lol went on a bit of a tangent there).

Anyways, next up is Star Wars Rebels. While it is a little more juvenile in execution (i mean, it is a kids show), I think it did a good job in setting up the foundations of the Rebellion, and how small acts can lead to great change. Also just, contextualizing the state of the galaxy under the Empire's thumb and incorporating a lot of the rejected concepts from the Original Trilogy.

And finally, my all-time favorite, The Clone Wars. I practically grew up watching this show. There is just so much to it. While yes, most of it follows Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka, we also get entire episodes dedicated to other characters on all sides of the conflict, and the show does a lot to set up later events in Revenge of the Sith and beyond. My favorite thing about the show was the character development. We get to see Anakin in the context of his relationships with others as well as the progression of his downfall. We get to see the clones actually get personalities and become more than the faceless armored bodies of the movies. We get to see the progression of the characters being fired up to fight to steadily getting worn down by all the loss and destruction of war. And we get to witness some of the best character development ever in Ahsoka. There is so much this show gave the fandom that I can't really verbalize it all.

So yeah, these are all my favorite/most memorable pieces of Star War media as well as my thoughts on them.

[merrysithmas]

glad i’m not the only one not really feeling it. i don’t want to be negative and of course i will watch it still, but so far i’m just???

yeah i just try to watch for the sole sake of like visually seeing the characters again LMAO but that's p much all I've been getting out of this season.

there is NO plot and it's straight up flabbergasting. like every episode is more random and disconnected than the last one 😂

i dont like being negative about star wars because what can you do but just enjoy the good in the bad if youre a fan (the sequels..ahem). but i dont think it's negative to point out this season has ultimately been pointless for our main characters Din & Grogu and kind of hung them out to dry. just an observation to Lol at.

IMO Mando has always been the worst live action SW series and this season is doing nothing to dissuade me from that. I always enjoyed & had a higher opinion of TBOFB, OWK, Andor.

i see a lot of folks like "well Mando just kind of wants to fit back in now" well then like... the show should show us that. That's not a narrative arc - that's just you trying to explain it's inexplicable lack of focus on him/his goals/his former plot threads.

I've LOVED Bo Katan since TCW (my fav messy angry bitch) but as a stan even I'm allowed to say - k but this isn't the Bo Katan show? i mean that isnt a mystery here lol. I hope she gets a spinoff (and believe she will) but like man they should stop using various Disney+ Star Wars shows to advertise for others.

[endversewinchester]

I think Rebel Alliance soldiers vs Galactic Empire make a compelling anti war story than Acolyte. Further more as Rebel Alliance soldiers can take it to far to the extreme as shown in Andor and Rogue One if they are pushed too far. From the Galactic Empire said we can see from a point of view how they are also bad with the crimes they commit related to historical matters. This is why I think Star Wars Acolyte story does not hold weight as it doesn't make a convincing the jedi are bad as it isn't well written as the kind of story knights of the old republic and especially its sequel game have done showing the bad sides of the Jedi. Everything in Acolyte seems rushed, the main character Osha is far too similar to Sabine Wrens handling in live action Ahsoka or should I say repeating the same mistakes as Sabine Wren had done in Ahsoka. New Star Wars writers post The Mandalorian and Andor think women heroes in star wars committing far more selfish acts of evil make strong compelling characters. Am I not the only one who noticed Sabine Wren and Osha are portrayed as inexperienced and easily corruptible manipulated good aligned force users? This is bad writing for the women of Star Wars. Ahsoka who is a no nonsense hard fought rebel morally grey Jedi should have been more focused on training Sabine Wren to control her emotions first before using her force jedi powers as mental health is just more important with the power of friendship, sympathy, and empathy than power itself. I do not like how dehumanized Sabine Wren became now I hate how dehumanized Osha is as well. I believed Osha was going to be on a path like Luke Skywalker optimistic willing to do some good as he would in Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope but the terrible direction writing is causing Osha to receive hate from negative critics.

So you’re saying you’d like more on the OT era. That’s valid! I think between the OT, Kenobi, Andor, Tales of the Jedi, Star Wars Rebels, The Bad Batch and Rogue One we have a lot of content in that era. It’s understandable that lucasfilm wanted to do something different as for the stories not to get repetitive.

I don’t think the point of the acolyte is the Jedi are bad, anon. The show went through great lengths to establish that Sol made a series of mistakes based on the information he had at the time rather than the actual truth. Fandom is treating it as “Jedi bad” but the show really didn’t go there. Instead they are criticizing the entitlement of the Order in believing they know best about everything.

Second, I don’t agree Sabine and Osha are alike? Lol. Sabine has a much stronger personality than Osha ever did, and she renounced being a Jedi because she couldn’t get a hold of the force. Osha otoh is already force sensitive and she was “expelled” from the Order for not being able to put her past behind her. It’s not the same arc, but you are allowed to dislike one or both of them.

I also don’t think either one of them are easily corrupted force users? Lol WHAT. Just because Qimir upset her doesn’t mean she will turn into a Sith and go around slaying everyone in her path. And Sabine was selfish, yes, but Ezra and her are extremely close and she made a choice to protect someone she loved.

Guess which character we spent the entirety of tcw watching who forfeited being good for the sake of his friends and family?

And yet I don’t see you or anyone else say that’s bad writing, or that he’s weak. So we’ll agree to disagree there.

Third: I personally dislike force sensitive Sabine as a plot, however you are forgetting Ahsoka didn’t want a padawan. We see her refuse to train Grogu. She wasn’t ready because she had a lot of Anakin-related trauma which is very valid and was only resolved on screen in episode 5 of that show. A little after that is where Sabine learns how to use the force. It’s called character development. To say they are done dirty because they need to go through growth in their arcs is certainly a take.

And fourth: people are review bombing and using bots to bash the acolyte without even watching the episodes. (Seriously. The ratings go down before the episodes are even out). The hate isn’t legitimate. They are doing it because of women, people of color, space lesbians. It doesn’t have anything to do with writing and I would not waste my time worrying about the people running those bots if I were you.